vesta_aurelia: Fangirl your Armor (bujold -- choose to be)
[personal profile] vesta_aurelia
The Rhino Discussion is bearing fruit. One of them is this message I rec'd today:
Hey Vesta--have I said or done anything rude after I have legged you in fighting?

The simple answer--the one requested, however implicitly--is "Of course not."

The problem is...This is the Wrong Question.
The question should be: have you ever seen me behaving dishonorably on the field?

Because this kind of finely tuned question always comes from those who know, deep down, that they have done wrong but they can't bear to look at that part of themselves, so they must hem it in with particulars. Like politicians do.

I did not have sex with that woman... if I define sex in this particular way.
I did not behave dishonorably on the field... if I define dishonorable behavior in this particular way.

Because every fighter has made that error. Every one. At least once. Where they don't feel it because their blood's up, or the f*cker won't take a shot from anyone without a white belt, or they're too good to die to N00bs in Crown, or, or, or... And it's one thing to make a mistake. Because we all do. You fight long enough, you'll make that mistake.

The honorable fighter will resolve to not do it again for the rest of the tournament, and holds true.
The dishonorable fighter always has a reason for why it wasn't a mistake, really. The other guy should have--well, whatever the Other Guy was at fault for.

There are always, too, the true flowers of chivalry: the ones who make sure, great tournament or small, that when they err--they publically acknowledge it. To both their opponent and to the crowd. "I didn't feel that at first--the fight is yours. Well struck!"

How do I answer? How can I say, No to the question I'm asked and Yes to the one I should have been asked?

Wrong queston

Date: 2013-03-27 07:51 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] snortinsnorrie.livejournal.com
I would say, the answer to your question (not theirs) is pretty much what you just wrote. Tell them point blank, in brutal honesty what you just said.

Who do you spare in not pointing out that they are asking the wrong question? How is the problem resolved it if it skirted?

Ask more questions, ask the questions you think need to be asked.

Personally, I would start with a survey. List the 5 most consistent Rhinos in the realm. I'm willing to bet that three of them would repeatedly show up in the first three places in the view of both fighters and non fighters. But that's just me :)



Re: Wrong queston

Date: 2013-03-27 08:03 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] vesta-aurelia.livejournal.com
Oh, we could do that--if we wanted factionalism to tear apart the Principality. Because there isn't a major group that doesn't have a rhino in it.

Not one.

Whether it's yours, or the people you dislike up north, or folks across the mountains, or people in the Barony I love so much.... it's not just a case of a few bad eggs anymore. It's growing systemic.

This is why I like Durin's Roadshow. Perhaps we need a few home truths, delivered by those we trust most--rather than people who dislike us and we dislike. Upping the ante doesn't get new ideas in. Lowering the wall does.

We have so few un-factionalized people in the Summits that the ones we do have are going to be hauling a heavy load.
Edited Date: 2013-03-27 08:12 pm (UTC)

Re: Wrong queston

Date: 2013-03-27 10:50 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] snortinsnorrie.livejournal.com
that last bit was a snark of things we would love to see or say but can't. Not well thought out as a snark.

You're right, it is pandemic in proportion and it's not just the fighters that can see it clearly, it's obvious off the field as well.

Flowers of Chivalry

Date: 2013-03-27 08:48 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] admnaismith.livejournal.com

There have been dozens of Norse wrestling champions at Ithrotir. I can remember the names of exactly none of them.

Except one.

He was one of the largest men in the field, and solid muscle, and he could throw people around like they were stuffed toys.

But he lost the tournament. Because he consistently and instinctively used his own arm to break the fall of his opponent, who might otherwise have been injured, and in doing so, his arm would touch the ground, costing him the match (the rule is, the first to touch ground other than with one's feet loses).

He was called Chun Lao.

OK, I misspoke. I don't remember any champions at all, because Chun Lao did not get the prize. But he did get the glory. The prince called him out in court for special recognition, and everyone knew gorram well he would have been the winner if he hadn't taken care not to injure his opponents.

Seems to me, when you're in a tournament and not in actual combat (and sometimes even in combat), living by the code is more important than just kicking ass. And sometimes, it's more impressive.

Date: 2013-03-27 10:10 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] trudchen.livejournal.com
Yes I remember Chun Lao, and often in heavy fighting the good fighters over those that would win the tournament but not really WIN.

Date: 2013-03-28 02:40 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] hrothgar1.livejournal.com
How about- "well no, not after legging me!"

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