Replying to post at sca_snark
Let me address the most personal notes first: This is not a new snark. This is based on an old antir.com email I came across while cleaning out my old printout files. (We had access to a diamond-cut shredder for EarthDay, at work. It was lovely to see a certain pointy-hatted jerk’s emails and MySpace posts shredded, let me assure you. :P)
I’m not going to post any “new” snarks. I’ve been inspired by unawicca
, who does not post things that have just happened to her. I HAVE posted things that have just happened to me and, frankly, they’ve come back to bite me in the butt. I don’t want a solution. I don’t want dialogue. I just wanna kvetch!
So, some data:
- Thank you for the feedback. Please remember that liquids are not to pass through nasal passages. The Heralds call that “norking through the nose” and it’s considered appropriate for hazard pay, if we got paid for this.
I documented a chiffon-weight undergown (made of out cheesecloth, as I didn’t have access to veil-weight linen at that time).
Tabletweaving is problematic for Minoan culture. There’s no evidence that they *did* -- nor is there evidence that they *didn’t*. The extant archaeological information shows evidence of wool working (from large wool-washing vats) and linen-working (from the “wetting bowls” for spinning linen). There are drop spindles and loom-weights. But there’s no evidence of any tablet-weaving cards. There are a number of ivory artifacts found in various layers in the Palaces (mostly Knossos, although some in Phaistos), but there’s no wood or ivory or metal tabletweaving cards yet discovered.
Unfortunately, the frescos seem to be of people “at play” (or involved in religious ceremonies: “the Bull Leapers” or “the Saffron Gatherers”) – there’s no visual representations of people “at work.” No farmers, no hunters, no weavers, no mothers with their children, etc.
Recreating clothing from statuary and frescos, there’s the possibility that the “bands” of pattern along the seams of the tunic-top and the bottoms of the layered skirts and men’s kilts were tabletwoven. It’s possible! We just have no archaeological or visual indications either way.
points out, the first indication of trade was the unique shape of the ingots. When Minoan researchers started going deeper into ties with Egypt, they uncovered a number of otherwise anomalous tomb paintings within the same timespan that seemed to visually indicate a Cretan or Minoan connection. The most famous of these is the tomb of Rekhmire the vizier (although there are representations in the tombs of Puimre, Senmut, User Amon and Menkheperre-senb as well).
This makes the Minoan/Egyptian connection roughly contemporary with the reign of Pharoh-Queen Hatshepsut and her successor Thutmosis III. The male figures (unfortunately, only male) in the frescos are wearing Minoan-style kilts (very different than the Egyptian ones) and carrying Minoan-style rhytons (vessels). The name commonly used for Minoan-culture peoples in Egyptian art seems to be “Keftiu”
Alas, very old and untimely snark. Not sure if that makes it good cartoon fodder or not
Well, you can see the resulting Minoan dress in a few images online…
You know, I never thought of that! I get flack for being “out of period” sometimes, but it’s less of a problem now that I’m a better fighter. :D
The Internet is an idiot savant, seriously. Sometimes you can find the most amazing pictures, and sometimes it’s just the same old re-iterated lies.
ooooooo… you worked on Groa’s Minoan? What was that process like? What fabrics did you use…it was for a July coronation, right?
Hey, Marian? Do you have a printout of that old Minoan paper in your Stuff From Old Sergeants piles? If you stumble across it in your cleaning frenzy... :)
The research paper is something I’m proud of – I worked very hard at it, and made a lot of choices based on my understanding of the technology and the materials and the archaeological finds. That’s not to say I’d make the same choices again. I wrote that paper back in 1998/1999 – there’s been new information come to light since then (ooooooh, the Thera excavation!). Ideas have changed.
For example, I wouldn’t use wool, if I were making another Minoan gown, which means I disagree with Barber, but after *wearing* the gown, I have to say it would be unpleasant in the summer, even of the lightest weight wool. Seriously, gah! But I would still advocate an undergown.